Wednesday 31 October 2012

7th October New York


7th October

All Meted out

Today was a little cold and grey and so we intended to spend some of the day in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.  If you thought the British Museum was large think twice the size.  The collections are out of this world, from period room settings, actually taken from the houses where they were in situ, to the best collection of European art we have ever seen.  The fruits of capitalism used to plunder European heritage!

In one room there are half a dozen Van Goughs followed by two rooms containing over 30 Monets,  by the end of it we were suffering almost a sensory overload and that is before we got to the Warhol  exhibition.  Many of his classic works compared and contrasted with the works of other artists including two pieces by our own Gilbert and George.  Then as you exit that exhibition you are faced with a pair of amazing Pollocks and so on!

By know we were getting exhausted but not only was it physically difficult to find the way out but it was also emotionally difficult as ever time you turned a corner there was yet another masterpiece which you had to ignore if you wanted to escape.  We eventually left at 3.30pm, tired but happy.  Or at least John was!  Carol had worn small heels so wasn’t so happy!  Sore feet not happy feet!

Then back to the hotel for tea and a rest before going out for the evening with Marion and Ian, friends from Australian who, by yet another coincidence are in New York at the same time as us.  We met in Greenwich Village and had a fabulous meal followed by 2 whiskeys at the Jekyl & Hyde bar.
 


 
Metropolitan Museum images 
 

Sunday 28 October 2012

27th October San Francisco –Free day


27th October San Francisco –Free day

 
We took the cable car to the shops at Union Square and spent the day shopping, bargain cashmere & golf shoes for John.  We stopped for lunch at a seemingly unpretentious sandwich shop, Mocca on Maiden Lane, which turned out to be a bit of a city icon and charged accordingly.  $42 for 1 sandwich, 1 salad and 2 ordinary glasses of wine!  However the shock was mitigated by 2 young girls performing folk music, with fiddle and steel ukulele.  

In the evening we went to dinner with the celebrity in our group, Ed Welch and his wife Jane.  In the 1970’s Ed recorded with a famous American folk singer Tom Paxton and then performed with Spike Milligan on his Q series of TV programmes.  He’s also written a large number of theme tunes and sound tracks for TV programmes including ‘One Foot in the Grave’ & ‘Thomas the Tank Engine,, a fascinating and very modest guy.     

This is the end of what has been a really great if tiring trip and we head home tomorrow.

26th October San Francisco – free day


26th October San Francisco – free day

Today we took a cable car to the Ferry Building & boarded the 11.30am ferry to Sausalito.  It was fun riding around on these historic vehicles which date from the 1870’s, you can hope on and off as much as you like.  We bought a 3 day travel pass for $21 and made full use of it.  Drivers are known as ‘gripmaps’, no idea why!

Sausalito is just over the Golden Gate Bridge and you can either drive there or take the ferry, which takes about 25 minutes.  There are some nice restaurants, cafes, shops and art studios and a picturesque waterfront, its well worth a visit.

When we got back to the Ferry Building we walked around the Marketplace where we had lunch at a wine bar.  The Marketplace has shops selling all sorts of artisan products from soup to soap! A nice place to wander.

After lunch we took the trolley bus along the Bay Side.  The trolleys are mainly old vintage vehicles that have been brought in from other US citys after they had dispensed with them.  In the evening we had our last supper as a group with Doug & his disciples!  Much hugging and kissing as we said our goodbyes with all but 3 couples flying home the next day.

 
Sausalito

Saturday 27 October 2012

25th October San Francisco – Alcatraz


25th October San Francisco – Alcatraz

Not quite such an early start for our city tour today, 9.15am, so a more leisurely breakfast at the Village CafĂ©, a great little place run by a Chinese couple, superb quality and incredible prices.  Then onto the coach for the city tour which included “The Crookedest Street” which winds down one of the hills, China town, the old Victorian streets, The Mission district, Golden Gate Park and the Golden Gate Bridge.  A comprehensive tour of all the major sights with a commentary from the most knowledgeable driver we have had.   However one disappointment was that there was no stop at Haight/Ashbury which was the centre of the hippy and the counter culture movement of the 1960’s.   We were told that it was not a very savoury place to visit.  But then it probably never was!

After this we went Alcatraz, via the ferry and all settled down, when the ‘Dix’ bustles up and with a loud “room for two little ones”, shoves everyone up the bench and squeezes in!  Alcatraz was amazing, very atmospheric and claustrophobic. It was only operating for 29 years but still managed to build up the fascination that continues today.  It was well worth the visit.

Doug left us at Alcatraz so we were left to our own devices, no more shepherding and being organised.  After three weeks it was like being released!   On returning to the mainland we wandered along Fishermen’s Wharf and Pier 39, Blackpool on the Bay! We then looked for a bus back to the hotel; maybe being organised by Doug had its advantages! As one of our party said on being released by Doug, “It was like looking round and thinking where’s my Mummy?” We eventually found it and made a very crowded trip back to the hotel followed by a meal in an Italian restaurant.  Why can’t the Americans do timing?  We ordered pre-dinner drinks, they arrived after the starters, a glass of wine to follow came just after we had eaten a fair bit of the main course and the coffee came before we got dessert.  Don’t ask when the two grappas we ordered with the coffee came?     

The weather has been stunning, a real Indian summer.

24th October Los Angeles to San Francisco


24th October Los Angeles to San Francisco

 
Bar on the Queen Mary


 Another 5.30am alarm call!  And then we transferred to the Coastal Starlight for our 10 hour journey to San Francisco with wonderful views of the ocean and then of the rolling Californian coastal plains.  Not a lot more to say about today other than that we sat on a train for 10 hours, fortunately it wasn’t delayed!  We checked into the Holiday Inn on Van Ness and California around 11pm.

Thursday 25 October 2012

23rd October Los Angeles & the RMS Queen Mary


23rd October Los Angeles & the RMS Queen Mary

We arrived in Los Angeles at 8.30am and boarded a coach for a guided tour of some of the city’s main sights.  These included some time in Hollywood where we saw the footprints of the stars, visited Mann’s Chinese Theatre, the Dolby Theatre and then we strolled down Hollywood Boulevard. It’s all a bit artificial and tacky.   We also drove along Sunset Strip, Rodeo Drive , (which is just like Bicester Village!) and through Beverley Hills,  all manicured lawns,  planned planting and even silver fire hydrants rather than the usual yellow which are considered to be too common, before checking in to the RMS Queen Mary which is docked in Long Beach.

Boarding the Queen Mary was like walking into an art deco museum.  Our room contained all the original 1930’s furniture and even the bathroom fittings were original.  At 2pm the ‘Captain’ gave us an hour long tour of the ship describing its history and the celebrities who sailed on her.  Whilst describing her wartime service he explained that during one trip, it carried over 16,000 troops, a record for any ship.    

We had dinner at Sir Winston’s restaurant aboard ship, the quality of the food and the service was exceptional.  Overall it was an amazing experience to stay on board.




 

22nd October - Grand Canyon


22nd October Grand Canyon

We travelled by coach on the legendary Route 66 and boarded the train at Williams for our two and a half hour journey to the Grand Canyon after being treated to a Wild West shootout.  At least they had the decency to do it as a comedy.  The train coaches were from the 1950s although disappointingly the engine itself was modern.  Despite this it still only travelled at a maximum of 40 mile per hour.

During the journey we were treated to two bouts of entertainment.  The first was the most appalling country singer; I have never heard Johnny Cash numbers so butchered.  He had a most amazing range of unnecessary key changes and all delivered out of tune.  It was a real example of giving him a dollar to play in the next carriage.  The second was another Dix moment.  Derek seems to think he is invincible and the more Doug, our tour manager, told us the limits to what we could expect to be able to do in the time that we had,  the more Derek would ask if he could walk further.  In the end all you could hear was Doug saying, “no Derek, no Derek, you won’t have time Derek, no Derek”.  We think he finally got the message.

When we got to the Canyon the views were as spectacular as they always appear in the photos.  The scale is so immense that it really impossible to take them in.  The canyon is 277 miles long so you can only see a part of it at any one time.  After lunch we walked the 1.65 mils to the observation point, which took us 45 minutes, we then realised that we were running out of time and had to do the return journey in 30 minutes. Not bad at altitude and after a good lunch!  You could say we felt like a couple of Dix!

The return journey had a much better entertainer, guitar, harmonica, blues and railroad songs, even a reference to Lonnie Donegan. We were also of course attacked by bandits who were beaten off by our noble sheriff.   As we approached our terminus the canteen server sang her song again –“ las coll, las coll, the caneeen will close in five minits.”

On the way back to Flagstaff we stopped on old route 66 for photos then there was time for a quick dinner before boarding the South West Chief for our last overnight journey to Los Angeles. 

 
Derek bless him!



 

21st October Flagstaff & Sedona, Arizona


21st October

Today we were picked up by Jim and Jenny to go to their friend’s ranch.  We arrived at their place outside Sedona, up in the hills.  We were first shown round the estate lodge.  This was a huge building with a fully grown red cedar in the centre of the main hall. 

David and Linda raise cattle and run a number of tourist activities, they also ride and hunt like the stereotypical westerners.  David’s gun cabinet contained at least a dozen weapons of various types and calibres.  It was slightly unnerving when he opened up his jacket and showed us his pistol in a shoulder holster!!  Arizona is one of only three states to allow the carrying of a concealed weapon without a special permit!!!

After a tour of the farm and a stop to admire Linda’s new horse, we set off in a massive truck, Ford 350 with a 6.7 litre 400 bhp engine (note for any petrol heads out there), for the 9 mile drive down Schnebly Hill to Sedona which takes an hour!  Nine miles in an hour? Well this road is an old unmade wagon trail with sheer drops on one side that goes straight down the mountain. It was an unbelievably rough ride but with stunning views all the way down.  In some respects it was even more impressive than Monument Valley and again many cowboy films have been made in the area.

Anyway we survived and to recover, had Margaritas and were treated to a superb lunch by Jenny and Jim, thanks again guys! Finally the journey back to Flagstaff took us along Oak Creek Canyon and yet more stunning views.





 

Sunday 21 October 2012

20th October Monument Valley Utah


20th October Monument Valley

 

Another early start, we set off by coach to Flagstaff Arizona where we are looking forward to staying 2 nights.  These one night stands have been really tiring!  Doug our tour guide had promised us the best day of the trip and he was not exaggerating.  After an hour drive, we entered Navajo land, a semi-autonomous region spreading over three states, which was given to the Navajo nation in the 1920s.  It is however mainly worthless dessert but does include Monument valley.

After two hours the landscape starts to become really dramatic with red stone mesas and buttes. Real cowboy film scenery!  The real highlight of the morning however came with a visit to Gooseneck Canyon.  Our driver, Jeff -white Stetson, leather waistcoat and string tie- turned our 50 seater coach on a narrow track which had a warning about it being unsuitable for trucks, RVs and buses, and drove us a couple of miles to an example of an entrenched river meander, (bet you’re impressed!).  What this really means is that it is a river that over the millennia has cut itself a deep and narrow canyon which loops around the harder rock in an incredibly dramatic fashion.  Totally spectacular!! And close to where Thelma and Louise were filmed supposedly driving over the edge of the Grand Canyon!

Then onto monument valley and more photo opportunities than you can shake a stick at.  On the way passing the site where Forrest Gump stopped running across the USA – wow!   

There really is no point in describing Monument valley, it is one of the most widely photographed places on the planet and has appeared in scores of western movies.  It is however even more dramatic when seen in real life, it is almost as though you can’t help but keep taking photos even though you are sure that you have already caught the shot before.  Then another huge lunch and a visit to the John Wayne museum before heading for the hotel in Flagstaff.

In the evening we met up with our friends Jim and Jenny from Ohio and spent a very enjoyable evening with them.
 
 
Goose Neck Canyon

 
Monument Valley

 
Run Forrest run!


 
Monument Valley
 

19th October Grand Junction to Silverton


19th October.

Had quick walk round Grand Junction, it were closed.  We didn’t miss a lot by not getting here on time. 

Back on the coach and “take to the hills”.  The drive to Silverton was spectacular, mountains looming in the background all the way.  We stopped for coffee at Ouray, named after a Ute Indian chief, the Wild West preserved but not just for tourists, fabulous buildings, businesses and the bank was just as you would imagine it would have been in the 19th century.  When we went in they were still using a typewriter,’ hey how quaint is that?’

Then onto Silverton with a stop at Red Rock on the way to see the old mine workings, my god how much more exciting can it get I hear you say!!  A few interesting facts about Silverton.  Its name is a corruption of Silver by the ton.  They mined millions of tons of silver in this town in 19th and early 20th century.  At its peak it had a population of 5000, mainly male although 1500 prostitutes were also in residence, they were known as the ‘soiled doves’ a term which seems to have a real pathos about it.   High in the San Juan Mountains, Silvertons streets are lined with buildings that look as though they were plucked from an old John Wayne western film.

We boarded the Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad at 2.15; it came straight in through the middle of the town, no station.  The trip to Durango took 3.5 hours and the train travelled slowly & at times precariously, along the 45 mile trip, through the canyons and remote wilderness of the San Juan National Forest, following the Animas river.   We arrived in Durango and checked in to the Doubletree Hotel before dining with a few of our group at the Strater Hotel, a typical Wild West hotel.
 
Western Hotel at Ouray

 
Silverton


 
 

Friday 19 October 2012

Denver to Grand Junction 18th October


18th October

Got up at 5am, bags packed and picked up at 6am and down ready to go at 6.45 to find that the train was running 4 hours late, BUGGER!!!  Carol went back to bed, I sat and wrote this.  Some of the ladies took advantage of the hotel swimming pool while we waited, see photo.  Anyway, 6 hours later the train arrived so we missed a lot of the scenery as it got dark before we got across the continental divide.  Arrived in Grand Junction 11pm, went to bed.
 
 

Thursday 18 October 2012

17th October- The Rockies


17th October- The Rockies

We had an early start and then a full day up into the Rockies.  It turned out however to be a bit of a false start however as we immediately hit a traffic jam.  Our guide informed us that it was all the fault of a dead dog.  Apparently when the road had been a toll, the toll keeper had a dog that was much loved by the local populous.  When it died it was buried next to the highway and when the authorities wanted to widen the road, uproar resulted and it has never happened!  A whole new perspective on NIMBYISM.  

We passed through Boulder and then eventually arrived in Estes where we were lucky enough to see some elk, grazing on a golf course.  Apparently this is the time of the year when the males, testosterone fuelled, fight each other for the females and are intolerant of any intruders.  One assumes that this would qualify as a natural hazard but wouldn’t like to go looking for wayward balls!

After a coffee stop, where Carol brought a bright yellow hat, I managed to persuade her not to buy the one shaped like a bears head; we went up into the national park where the scenery was stunning.  We couldn’t go as high as usual as the authorities had closed the roads due to early snow falls.  Then back to Estes for lunch.  After lunch we drove a scenic route through the park and were particularly lucky to come across some long horned sheep.  These don’t often come down from the high mountains so to see two young males was really unusual and they really are magnificent creatures.

Our final stop of the day was at the Red Rock Amphitheatre, a collection of huge red rocks within which a natural auditorium has been created.  Although we had not heard of it all the greats have performed there, including the Beatles in 1964 on their first tour of the USA.  Overall we had a great day, if tiring, probably due to the altitude, but worth every minute.  Then cod and chips in the hotel bar, well it has to be done, and an early night ready for a 5am alarm call.



 
 

Tuesday 16 October 2012

12th October – Free Day in Washington


12th October – Free Day in Washington

 

A nice bright and sunny day today, we decided that a visit to Arlington Cemetery was a ‘must do’.  Our hotel is a 5 minute walk from Union Station so off we went to board the tube.  Operating the ticket machines is not that straightforward but eventually we got the hang of it.  There aren’t many lines so it’s pretty easy to get about. 

The cemetery occupies 4 acres and is very impressive; we visited the memorials of John F & Jacqueline Kennedy.  After a walk up the hill to Arlington House, the ancestral home of Robert E Lee, we went to see the tomb of the unknown soldiers where the changing of the guards was taking place. 

Then it was back on the tube where our railcards wouldn’t work, they needed more money!  So began the process of adding more money to the cards via that decidedly un-user friendly ticket machine!  We wanted to visit the old town of Georgetown so we took the tube to ‘Foggy Bottom’ the nearest station (yes really)!   Georgetown has some very interesting old buildings and very nice shops; Carol was tempted by a handbag in the Michael Kors shop but resisted bravely.  Had a tasty lunch at an Italian restaurant and it was warm enough to sit outside.  Finally we walked back to the station via the waterfront.  Compared to New York, it’s more expensive to travel by tube here; I think the bus is cheaper.

We had arranged to meet 2 other couples for dinner, Anita & Tom from Jersey and Ann & ‘Ah well’ from Wales, that’s the only way we can remember how to pronounce it!

16th October- Arriving in Denver


16th October- Denver

This morning went to the dining car for breakfast and was greeted by our server; I say greeted loosely, “How many? Sit there”. We had already had experience of her last night when she came round to take reservations for dinner.  She came to our cabin and asked “when do yer wanna eat?”  We replied “eight would be good” “latest I got is 6.15!!” So 6.15 it was.  At breakfast it was a table of four including an elderly American gentleman.  When she returned it was ”Whatayer want” I replied “scrambled egg” she said grits,’taters or buscuit?” I felt the ‘taters sounded safest.  Then to the elderly gentleman she asks “so whatayer want?” I’d like pancakes, but just two please ma’am”.  “That’ll be the kiddies portion then” she snapped, He then added “but I’d like two sausage patties please”, “Then you’ll have t’ have three pancakes!”  No ray of sunshine was she, more a storm cloud sweeping through the dining car and still expecting a 20% tip!!

Anyway arrived safely in Denver and were given an hours tour of the highlights before checking into the Warwick which is another very nice hotel and our room even has a balcony.  It has been a very warm day, in the 80s, but despite that we managed to see the Capitol building, the modern art museum, the catholic cathedral and walk the mile long 16th street mall.  Denver is not anywhere as up market as the last three cities and there is a lot of begging on the street.  However there was a great trio of lads from Louisiana playing what can only be described as original Skiffle and we stood and listened to them for a while.  For lunch we went into the Yard House.  130 different draft beers from all over the world including Boddingtons, what a pity shame!! So many beers so little time. 
Then more shopping and a haircut for John, well the boss said he needed one!  The barber was very deaf and while telling us his life story, would ask questions which he did not seem to hear the answers to, but a lovely guy regardless.
 
Modern Art Museum
 
 
 
 

15th October – Chicago


15th October – Chicago

 After a good night’s sleep and breakfast in bed, John went to a supermarket and bought provisions including a 6 pack of 1 pint cans which cost $5.49, in the bars a pint of anything is between $6 & $8, a bit of a mark-up!   We then took a walk to the Navy Pier before returning to the hotel to join the rest of the party for our transfer to Union Station to catch the 2pm Californian Zephyr.  The afternoon was spent travelling across the farmland of the mid-west until we crossed the Mississippi.  Then night fell and it was impossible to see anything!  The night was rough; at times it felt as though the train had square wheels and it’s a wonder we got any sleep at all!  Many didn’t!  Some of our party are finding the tour tiring especially the overnight rail journeys.  It is pretty exhausting and living out of a suitcase is a bit of a challenge!
 
 
Our Amtrak Train Californian Zephyr

 
Crossing the Mississipi
 
 
 

Sunday 14 October 2012

Last Day in Washington


13th October - Last Day in Washington   

Today is our last day or morning to be more precise, in Washington.  One thing we omitted to mention yesterday was that the bed in our room was so high that it came complete with a stool to aid access!  No it wasn’t a bunk, that comes later on the train!

John went to the Smithsonian Aeronautical Museum which holds a number of historic planes including the Wright Brothers original flying machine, Bleriot’s airplane and Lindenbergh’s Spirit of St Louis.  It also had the space landing capsule which was amazingly small for 3 men, no place for gas!

We then met up at the Capitol and went to the Conservatory of the Botanical Gardens which housed an extensive collection of tropical plants.  Our walk around was accompanied by a selection of atmospheric music, the whole effect was extremely memorable.   A short walk took us to the Capitol building for a quick look round before returning to the hotel in time for a cultural Guinness (John) before joining the rest of our party to transfer to our train, the Capitol Limited.

On embarking the train, it was rather like being on a school trip with much hilarity and giggling over the size of the accommodation and the shower room/toilet, in which the only practical way to shower was to sit on the toilet at the same time!  And we were one of the lucky few with an ensuite!   After a bit of time in the observation car watching West Virginia & Maryland pass by, we had a very nice dinner in the dining car where we chatted with a larger than life American lady who travelled by train wherever possible in the course of her work. 
There is on board a party of Amish, with their long dresses, beards and bonnets!

And so to bed…………our cabin had been made up with 2 bunk beds, John of course was on top!  A good night’s sleep was had despite the train blowing its horn constantly throughout the night.











 

Free Day in Washington


12th October – Free Day in Washington


A nice bright and sunny day today, we decided that a visit to Arlington Cemetery was a ‘must do’.  Our hotel is a 5 minute walk from Union Station so off we went to board the tube.  Operating the ticket machines is not that straightforward but eventually we got the hang of it.  There aren’t many lines so it’s pretty easy to get about. 

The cemetery occupies 1,100 acres and is very impressive; we visited the memorials of John F & Jacqueline Kennedy.  After a walk up the hill to Arlington House, the ancestral home of Robert E Lee, we went to see the tomb of the unknown soldiers where the changing of the guards was taking place. 

Then it was back on the tube where our railcards wouldn’t work, they needed more money!  So began the process of adding more money to the cards via that decidedly un-user friendly ticket machine!  We wanted to visit the old town of Georgetown so we took the tube to ‘Foggy Bottom’ the nearest station (yes really)!   Georgetown has some very interesting old buildings and very nice shops; Carol was tempted by a handbag in the Michael Kors shop but resisted bravely.  Had a tasty lunch at an Italian restaurant and it was warm enough to sit outside.  Finally we walked back to the station via the waterfront.  Compared to New York, it’s more expensive to travel by tube here; I think the bus is cheaper.

We had arranged to meet 2 other couples for dinner, Anita& Tom from Jersey and Ann & ‘Ah well’ from Wales, that’s the only way we can remember how to pronounce it!

 

 
What's the hold up, it would be quicker to walk!?

 
Capitol
 

Friday 12 October 2012

On The Train at Last – 11th October


On The Train at Last – 11th October

This morning we transferred to Penn Station to join the train for Washington after being told that we must all be ready to leave promptly by 7.30.  We duly did as we were told and a head count made, two missing!  So Doug, our tour manager went to find see if he could see anyone left behind, no luck and so 15 minutes later a role call had to be taken.  There is always some dick on every trip!  In this case almost literally no sooner had Doug confirmed the Eves, and asked Dix?, then an elderly couple climbed aboard, “are we late?” 

The train journey was uneventful passing through Philadelphia, Charlestown and Baltimore with the train travelling much faster than we had been led to believe.  John fell amongst thieves and vagabonds and was forced to drink beer most of the journey!  At Washington Union station it was utter chaos, no porters, building works and no bus!  It did eventually turn up and then all aboard, Mr Dix left his bag on the sidewalk and had to go back for it!!

The tour of Washington was however really good, The Whitehouse, Capital Building, Lincoln Memorial and the Korean and Vietnam war memorials.  Finally a stop to walk through the Roosevelt Memorial, his quotes must seem outrageously left wing to the current generation of U.S. politicians, and then a walkthrough the trees alongside the Martin Luther King Memorial.  All along the path were signs warning of low branches, when we got on the bus, who had gashed his head?  Yes you guessed it Mr Dix!!!
Any away the hotel is grand except for the eejit  playing a tuneless trumpet outside the window, it has an Irish pub attached, we had fish and chips for us tea and went to bed tired but happy. 



Ghosts of Korea







Wednesday 10 October 2012

Ground Zero


10/10/12

Ground Zero

Following on from our tour   yesterday we started our day by heading out of town to St. John the Divine’s cathedral.  Until yesterday I had not heard of it.  It is the Anglican cathedral of New York State and claims to be the largest cathedral and Anglican Church and fourth largest Christian church in the world, this honour is however disputed by Liverpool Cathedral who says that the ref. was biased.  It was started in 1892 and remains unfinished today.  Even better it was situated half a dozen stops on the subway north of us and although it doesn’t appear on any of the must do lists is truly worth a visit.

Then back on the subway and all the way down from 106th St. to Ground Zero over a hundred blocks.  The weekly metro card has certainly earned its keep this trip!  The visit to ground Zero is very moving, the huge square waterfalls pour into the two footprints of the twin towers while all around, the rebuilding of the World Trade Centre goes on. 

A silly diversion wad then undertaken,  as we had seen an advert for a pet supply shop called “Dudley’s  Paw”  and as it was only a couple of blocks from where we were it had to be photographed and a present bought for Dudley.